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how we avoid what happened in japan, let's have a conversation, but to rush forward on plans to building all those plants, it's crazy without that check first. >> cenk, of course, tonight at 6:00 p.m. eastern. that will do it for us. from. danger in the pacific. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm crist matt thew in washington. leading off tonight, fear and confusion. hard as it may be to imagine, japan's nuclear crisis seems to be getting worse. there are concerns about all six reactors it the crippled fukushima plant. the head of the nuclear
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regulatory commission here says rad agmay be at lethal levels, requires workers to leave the area. our own correspondents have returned from the field with traces of radiation themselves on their clothing. we'll have an update at the scene on the plant and how the country is coping with twin catastrophes. plus thor incredible workers at the plant itself,ç these bre selfless technicians are taking risks few of us can imagine and fewer still could attempt. the latest on the face will you see nameless heroes risking all to save everyone else. it's also said truth is the first casual of wart. the same could be said about a nuclear crisis. can we trust what we hear from japanese officials over there? in fact, whom can we trust? here at home we're hearing what really happens when catholic priests molest children in their diocese, in their parishes.
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the philadelphia d.a. to become the first prosecutor to actually charge a church official for the abuse of children they were meant to protect. who's crying about the ahead party? 54 republicans voted against a resolution to keep the government running, well, the bottom line, the grownups in the republican party are already get weary of the new tea party friends. we start with the ongoing crisis in japan. nbc news' lee cowen is in tokyo covering the story. lee, an update. four to six reactors in trouble now? >> reporter: right. exactly. there's a bit of good news to report this morning, chris. that's that officials are saying they think they have managed to get a power line into the plant itself. if it works -- they haven't started it yet, but if it works, they would be able to get power to some of those pumps and be able to start pumping the coolant again, in theory to help that cooldown process, or at
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least gets it to levels that would be a little safer. again, they don't know whether this is going to work. they're going to try it in the next couple hours, we're told, but it's one positive step. as we've seen all week there's one step forward and two steps back. that seems to be the case all week long. >> are we near meltdown in any of the cases of these reactors?ç >> reporter: they certainly won't say that they are. we've seen white steam coming out of the reactor itself. that seems to indicate that there's been some sort of breach in the core itself. they're not exactly sure if that's the case. it did -- the radiation levels are so high and resumed their work, but every indication is they could end up having to leave yet again, as you mentioned if the radiation levels get too high. every time it seems there's a
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bit of good news, and they start to get something under control, something else happens, and they have to go work on that. so the amount of work, it's not just one reactor, it's all six of them experiencing some kind of problem at the moment, and keeping track of it with the limited staff they have is getting next to impossible. >> what's going on with this rotation? we're hearing from our own head gregory jasco says these are reaches lethal levels. how do they get people to go back in there on rotation, the low number of people working on site? >> it's unreal. this is obviously something that they signed on for to work at the plant, but the stories coming out of there are pretty remarkable. one story we heard where a gentleman is in his 60s, only a couple months away from retirement, and he volunteered to go back in and try to keep things under control. his wife saying, go back in, do
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what you can to help ease everyone's concerns. we were told a story today of a relative of one of the workers who was at that plant doing the very same thing. she had the opportunity to leave, she turned it down. she's a nurse. she wanted to stay at the hospital nearby to help in my way she could. you're starting to hear these stories all the time. the people realize this is the focusof attention, and that really is only a handful of people in there willing to do the work. >> what about the people in the country? we're hearing all kinds of degrees of americans 50 miles away, the tourists can go 50 miles away, the japanese people told to go 19 miles away or else stay in your house and our own colleague lester holt. this radiation danger, how is it permeating the country? >> reporter: well, it's different, depending on where you are in the country. if you're up in the north, where so much of the damage is, they're not worrying too much about the nuclear reactors, to
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be honest. they're worried about getting through day by day, trying to find shelters. the temperatures have dropped considerably over the last few days. it's been snowing like crazy. they're more worried about finding food, water, shelter. the rescuers, the volunteers up there still trying hope against hope to try to find anybody that might be alive in the rubble. they know what's going on with the situation, they're clearly not worried about it in tokyo where it's a completely different scene. they're watching the news, listening to the radio, trying to figure out exactly what's going on. as we sort of experienced all week long, part of the problem is not only the information coming out, about you what is coming out is technical and it's difficult to figure out what it all means. you talk about lester and i, we drove down today from the north to tokyo. we got in a couple hours ago. when we had arrived, we had to go through radiation testing. there was trace amounts on the bottom of our shoes, on the
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bottom of the tripod, anything that touched the ground. part of the reason is because it was snowing so much, the snow traps whatever is in the air and traps it on the ground, but if you're walking around on the snow or putting your tripod down, that's where the contamination comes from. it's minuscule amounts, we're told. it's nothing that'sç life-threatening, but it is there. whenever somebody tells you your radiation levels are higher than they should be, that's certainly cause for concern. >> is that concern stopping the rescue effort? we got a report today that the people normally that would be rushing to the scene of the tsunami, as you said a minute ago, first responders trying to help people, just come back alive basically after this incredible tsunami, normally you would have a lot of internationals in there. is the fear of radiation contamination keeping them out? >> reporter: it's hard to say. i think, you know, we've had heard that now even the u.s. military is told to stay at
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least 50 miles away from fukushima itself if they're doing flyovers. that probably won't affect the rescue efforts up north. we saw today as we were driving back towards tokyo, the road going the opposite direction to go to the hardest-hit areas, all we saw were local fire trucks and rescue crews. we didn't see military from other cunning or rescue efforts from other countries on the road. the rescuers from los angeles, from fairfax, virginia, that have flown in, people from new zealand, who just dealt with their own quake there, have flown in to help. as they look at things, i think people look at where the hardest-hit part is, that's probably far enough away, but i'm not sure it's affecting how many people are willing to come in and help. not yet, anyway. >> great reporting and good friend to have over there in tokyo. lee cowen, thank you for reporting for us. there's conflicting information about the status of the fukushima daiichi plant.
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here's what we know so far. the top u.s. regulator presented a grave assessment of the crippled reactor before congress today. he said the skeletal crew of emergency workers may be subjected to lethal doses of radiation that could keep them preventing a full blown meltdown. the primary concern is on reactor 4, that's up at the top, is believed to have boiled dry, believed to be emitting high levels of radiation. they're also worried about the spent fuel pools in number 2, four other reactors in fact. in addition, a second containment vessel on reactor 3 may have ruptured earlier today. containment understand are 9 last line of defense. if all of this isn't enough to worry about, an estimated 70% of the fuel rods have been damaged and japan's national news agency
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says a third of the rots in reactor 2 are damaged. here's the most recent picture of what the complex looks like. let's turn to james acton, by the way, with the carnegie endowment for international peace. let's talk about this thing. these reactors, run through the dangers to people going on right now. we cover this as news -- in cog knitto, tell me about what to worry about with the people. >> i think you have to distinguishes between two dangers. the first is to 9 brave workers currently on site, who are working in increasingly hostile irradiated environment. the second danger is to the wider community living around the reactor area. here it's marginally better. right now the levels of radiation being released, though
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unacceptably high are unlikely to pose a risk to the health of the people outside the evacuation zone. >> go through what we heard about. there's up to six of them. tell me which one worries you moth. let's do triage. >> first i should point out there's deep uncertainty at the moment about all of this. vor various reasons the plant operators even acknowledge they don't know what's going on. i think the top concern is the spent fuel pond. it's lost the water and that means it's lost the ability to cool and protect. reactors 2 and 3, the cores in those two reactors are both in serious states. there's definitely been partial melting and there's significant trouble in trueing to cool them. reactor 1 is still on the critical list. finally the spent fuel ponds in 5 and 6. they are hot, but don't seem as badly damaged. >> if you were director of
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public safety, give me what you would be doing. you talked about the immediate sites. do you think they're kept far away from that? is that enough to keep people away from there? it seems like an arbitrary number. >> i don't have the information to judge that independently, but let me make the point. 500,000 people in japan have already had to be evacuated because of the earthquake and the tsunami. this was the biggest natural disaster in japan's history anyway. there's all these people without shelter, without food and without water. so it's extremely difficult to evacuate people if you don't have anywhere to evacuate them to. in many ways the best option i suspect is to ask people to stay where they are and not go outside. there's no good option, and the japanese authorities are having to making it up as they go along after being hit by this triple whammy. >> i'm thinking of on the beach, all the science fiction we've had to deal with, luckily it's
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been fiction. if it doesn't get on you, can you stay indoors and keep the particulates from getting on you? >> that's the idea. avoiding inhaling the particulates and avoid getting it on the skin, doesn't avoid you getting irradiated by penetrating radiation, but does take away invite worst impacts. >> i don't want to start a fear factor here, i don't think there is. we're all watching this, we don't feel like we're engaged in it. something can travel on airplanes, air traffic out of japan. can products, clothing, whatever is moving in the regular line of merchandising and commerce, can that get to america and cause any danger here? >> it's something to watch out for and there are perhaps sensible precautions to be taken, but the thing to emphasize here is away from the plant in japan radiation levels are still relatively low, 10 times above background sounds terrifying, but in absolute terms it's no extra radiation that 1.5 ct scans.
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>> thank you very much for coming on. the emergency workers that we were talking about. heroic people on the job, racing against the clock to prevent a meltdown, gu if they're forced to leave, nobody stops a meltdown. what are the odds they can get the job done? we're hearing about lethal levels of radiation and perhaps penetrating them. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. hey, did you ever finish last month's invoices? sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation
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at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get back to these invoices... which i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes. you know what? i'm going to tidy up your side of the office. i can't hear you because i'm also making you a smoothie. [ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process so they can focus on serving their customers. with xerox, you're ready for real business. well, obviously the earthquake damaged name hear plant in japan has many asking whether it could happen here. the nuclear regulatory commission compiled a list. the results are surprising. the reactor with the biggest risk is at indian point in new york state just outside new york city with a 1 in 10,000 chance each year -- i like those odds. the pilgrim 1 rereactor is
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second, followed by limerick in pennsylvania. sequoia in tennessee, and the fifth risk is beaver valley, also of course in pennsylvania. the full list is on our website, we'll be right back. ♪ what do you see yourself doing after you do retire? client comes in and they have a box. and inside that box is their financial life. people wake up and realize. "i better start doing something." we open up that box. we organize it. and we make decisions. we really are here to help you.
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the most riveting part of the disaster i think is the heroism of the workers trying to keep that plant from melting down right now as we speak. how much danger are they in? what must it be like to be one of them? jerry jenkins is at the school of engineering and dr. climben is a research scientist at the department of environmental hiss sciences at columbia. gentlemen, thank you. mr. jenkins, first of all, tell us what it's like to work in a facility where you have radiation all arounder.
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>> we have a good understanding of what rad agdoes to the body, and we have controls which controls how much radiation we're allowed to be exposed to. we can control our exposure by controlling the time we're exposed, the distance to the source, how much shielding we would use and the amount we use. says not in my best interest nor anybody else's to expos yourself to more than necessary. there's a rule called as low as reasonably achievable. so that's what we operate under. understanding what you're working with makes it you can do it safely. that cows tomb protects you 100%? >> no, it doesn't, but i don't have to wear those, because i don't work around anything with that much potential for
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contamination. those contamination suits or anti-contamination suits are designed to keep you from bripging anything back out with you. i think you talked about the people on the ground have had contamination on their shoes. the suit is there -- designed to protect you from getting that contamination. >> take us to the reactors. what's it like -- what risks are these guys taking? >> the risks they're taking right now, i don't think it's life-threatening. i don't have the information that the chairman has, maybe he has more. i've been watching nhk and listening to the japanese nuclear agency says, and right now the radiation levels that i have seen are not lethal. they are manageable, while you don't want to spend a lot of time dealing with them, you have to still keep the pumps running that will keep the fuel covered up with water. they have to check gauges, they have to check valves, take
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measurements. they also have people measures the radiation that the workers would be exposed to. all of them understand what they're getting into. nhk this morning said that the japanese nuclear agency said they were going to increase the dose that's allowed inç emergey situations to 250 mili sieve drts. >> if you're a suppose on one of these people themselves at fukushima plant, where we had those reactors going haywire, what are you worried about? >> what we're worried about accuse radiation exposure. as jerry said those exposures would be occurring at much higher levels considerably above levels what we hear those workers are being exposed to now, and at levels that we
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presume they're going exposed to, they wouldn't have the acute effects of radiation exposure. so they're taking reasonable precautions, and they are sadly exposed to elevated risk of cancer over their lifetimes, but these are reasonable risks given the circumstances and we applaud their heroism. >> what do you make of the head of the agency saying they are reaching lethal levels. what is a lethal levels. >> approximately 50% would die from 50 march, and 0.8 to 1 seifert they death gin for experience symptoms. >> jerry, the competent i guess
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is what are we looking at in the next couple days, hours even when you look at the possibility of a meltdown, which is there. they don't -- we're going to get to the credibility of the japanese government in a minute, but what is exactly the danger if this thing goes to meltdown and the workers are still on site? 4zmuáñ of the core and that mol fuel did not leave the vessel, but if there was a meltdown, it would not be as important to keep water over the core. the workers could actually pull back. the containment is there to contain, and we will of course hope that it does the best that it can. right now the important thing for the next probably two or three days is to make sure they keep getting waiver over that fuel, and i hear that it's possible they may have off-site power restored.
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that would definitely be a game changers they could recirculate water through external heat exchangers and continue to cool the cores and possibly reach a cold shutdown level probably by the weekend. >> just real quickly, you want if it does go to meltdown there's no reason to have workers on site. would you just give up and allow the radiation to pred? what do you mean there's no purpose to have worker still on site? >> they'll move to another unit and try to rescue the other unit. i probably misspoke and shouldn't have said they'll pull away. there's plenty of work to do with the six units, especially with the four that are in most jeopardy now. >> okay. thank you, jerry jenkins and dr. norman climben. up next many in japan losing trust in their government. are they getting the word to the people? is it honest? are they covering up a bit? we'll get to the question of
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credibility and what we're hearing and when we're hearing it. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] a chicken coop:
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farm-grown ingredients, and can help you keep a healthy weight. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. japan's nuclear crisis has been punctuated with a lack of clear and timely updates. are they downplaying this threat? can the information we're getting from tokyo be trusted? joining us is salon's joan walsh, our fred and greg mellow, a newcomer from the los alamos study group, a nuclear watch dog? are you antinuclear, just to get your background? you doi think we should be using it? greg? i think we have a technical problem. joan, do you have any reporting to give us on the credibility of the japanese officials so far? they seemed lining in the beginning very nationalistic, they didn't want help from the
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outside, we have things under control seemed to be the theme and later it's been developing to something a little scary, to put it lightly. >> the scary thing is there seems to be an information gap between what the japanese government is telling us and as you've been reporting mr. jasko is talking about a much more serious near-meltdown condition than the japanese officials are talking about, and our government is now recommending more than twice the evacuation zone that the japanese government is telling their people to çobserve. so that is starting to be scary. if we can't trust them to tell us what's really going on, i think that's when you start to have distrust and even panic in japan and even beyond.
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let's go to our usual area receive discussion, partisan politics. many thought -- about a year or two ago began to soften, even the president began to accept the fact. do you think they were right the first time? >> i think we were right the first time. i remember three mile island. i went to the antinuclear rally in washington. i'm not going to lie to you, chris. i've never pulled away from that. ip happy to be convinced otherwise. >> well, this ain't going to help. >> this is not helping. those of us who have retained our skepticism have been kind of called hysterical and other names by the industry but i think this is proving the scare yost thing is we don't really know what the worst-case scenario is, as you've been saying all week all our energy sources are risky, i think as a nation and hopefully as a global
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community we can come together and figure out how do we emphasize the safe renewable sources while we wean ourselves out of the exploitive sources. that's never broadband the project after these awful -- what oil has done to our economy at this point. we really are at a decision point, as an inflection point where i expect more leadership from our president, and i'm hoping we'll be getting it in the days to come. on the current situation, japan has told its citizens to evacuate the 12 miles, up to 19 miles to stay indoors.ç the united states is more cautious, telling our people over there? japan to get 50 miles away or take shelter. let's go back to greg. we have been him online. do you think the japanese government has been straight so far? >> no, not at all.
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i i think the issues have been minimized all along, and i think events have gotten ahead of the truth telling from the government. i don't think they've been forth coming, no. >> give me an example. >> well, we didn't hear anything about spent few fires in the beginning even though spent fuel fires are one of the most serious problems that could develop at the facility. it might have been expected under the circumstances. i think we hear euphemisms as we go along, and we never quite get the whole story until it becomes too big to keep from the public. pinches you speak as if that's predictive. that's normal behavior, to cover up? >> well, it's been normal for this company in the past. it's normal for the industry to some extent. it's a highly ideological industry and also involves a lot of concentration of political power as well as physical power.
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those institutions become very powerful, very close to the regulators and an adver sear culture develops when they're constantly pushing against the safety measures, because that's where the money is. if you did every single think that was possible to make it safe, you couldn't make any money and the electricity would be prohibitive expensive. so somewhere you have to draw a line and that's a contested area, to. >> for years a lot of people would say we don't want nuclear. so the crazy larouches would go toç the airplanes clicking the clickers. that debate is going to get hotter. i don't think nuclear will be as popular after this as it was, say, a week ago. thank you, greg.
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i want your point of view all the time. thank you, joan. up next, the former altar boy turned d.a. in philadelphia has gone after some priests in that diocese. the grand jury has indicted them. wait until you hear. i've been hearing them molest so for long -- if you don't want to watch the next ten minutes, i understand, but if you want to know what's going on, we'll finally get it out of the closet what's going on out there with these bad priests. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] if you're only brushing,
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i'm michelle caruso cabrera with your cnbc market wrap. the bears on a rampage on wall street today. the dow jones industrial average plummeting 242 points in extremely heavy trading s&p 500 lower byç 25, the nasdaq sheddg
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a full 50 points. stocks did finish believe it or not off the worst levels of the day despite giving up all their gains for the entire year. the power line to the name hear power plant possibly in place helped to lift the lows. analysts downgrades for ibm and apple hurt a sector already reeling from concerns about supply shortages due to japan. meanwhile, the dollar sunk to the lowers levels again the yin in 16 years. finally new housing starts plunge more than 22% in february. that's the biggest drop in 27 years, with new building permits hitting a record low. that's it from cnbc, we are first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball."
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during this lent we are especially conscious of the graf sins of sexual abuse committed against minors, in particular by members of the clergy. we experience the need to ask god's forgiveness repeatedly in our liturgy and to offer prayers of reparation for these sins, and for all the sins of the world. >> a good guy, last week philadelphia's district attorney has charged three priests in a parochial skee teacher with raping and assaulting two young boys. another priest was charged with covering up the abuse and endangers other children. "new york times" wrote about it day "a very longing atar boy." that's r. seth williams. he joins us now.
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mr. district attorney, it's an honor to have you on the program.ç i think you're doing god's work in a strange, strange environment. >> thank you, chris. >> eve never seen it detailed and never felt the word "molest" told us enough. i want to read part of the column today, and i want you to give us some legal information about the crimes involved as you see it, facing the grand jury report. the philadelphia grand jury report is especially sordid, this is the column, it tells the story of a fifth grade altar boy at st. jerome's, father engle hard, plied him with sacramental wine and told the child it was time to become a man. a week later, the report states that he instructed him to take off his clothes and perform oral sex on him. we can imagine that scene. then the pre208d the boy he was dismissed. after that billy was in effect passed around to his colleagues.
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father edward avery told him that god loved him and then had him perform sex on the priest. anyone a lay teacher in the school, shero offered billy a ride home, but instead told billy they were going to have some fun, orally and anally raped him and then made him walk the rest of the way home. is there anything missing, mr. district attorney, in the accused behavior of these men? >> no, it's horrific. every time i hear it and read about it and talk about it, it makes me sick to my stomach. here's a young boy, his parents are trying to raise him to be a moral, god-fearing, god-serving young man and taking him to be an altar boy before the school day began, and one priest he was entrusted to sodomized him. that priest bragged about it to another priest, who did theyu(sq
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thing, raped him and sodomized him. the boy immediately began manifesting all the telltale signs, he didn't want to play with his friends, he began vomiting. his parents took him away from the summer, when he came back, they had told his sixth grade teacher. that man drove him to a park, raped him and sodomized him in a car. this is just horrific -- >> without getting into the charges specifically, we have to be careful, they're all in process in the justice system. i was an altar boy in philadelphia, i grew up, did the morning masses, i even did hospital masses. i went through the whole thing, never had any problems like this. i can only imagine the priests i dealt with would have told other priests if anybody did anything like this. how does one priest know another that they can sort of form these combines that you're describing here? >> i don't know. i try to tell everyone this has nothing to do -- >> did they know each other? >> they were working together. they were in the same parish at
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st. jerome's. they also then told the teacher at that school, bernard shero, who later raped and sodomized billy in his car. they just talked about it. i try to explain to everybody. this has nothing to do with catholicism. this is evil men who did horrific things and i have to hold them accountable for that. we have to stand up and defend children. >> mr. district attorney, philadelphia is a town that's so parochial. they talk about neighborhoods by parishes. i group up in that wonderful tradition as you did. what percentage of priests we know are involved in this horrific cover-up and molestation and rape of young boys? >> well action what we found -- >> 1%? less than 1%? >> well, i think the catholic church does tremendous work across the world, but here in philadelphia, we thought there were about 37 priests in the active ministry that we believed had credible allegations of
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inappropriate behavior, rape or some sort of sexual assault with children. >> inappropriate and rape is a big wide stretch. >> that's correct. >> what does inappropriate meanç what would you say within the bounds of what you think is criminal? >> clearly anything in which you inappropriately touch a child, your private parts, you begin taking children out and giving them alcohol. it's part of grooming that on which leads to -- >> most people would say that's criminal, i think. not just chatting with them -- i don't even know what would be marginal. i'm trying to be honest with people. i want to make sure you know you're following the law and criminal behavior. how would you describe the work of his eminence cardinal, has he been helpful? can you describe it? >> yes, we have a good working relationship now. the fact that we have these cases of billy and mark getting all this national taken is because the archdiocese shared them with my office. we impaneled a grand jury that
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brought in does not of witnesses and reviewed thousands of document. we saw there was a conspiracy, there is a cover-up and monsignor lynn, a secretary for clergy would obvious just recycle priests across the archdiocese without informing the new pastor there's a pedophile in your rectory, don't allow them around children. we had to hold them accountable. >> a third or half the people that watch this every night who are roman catholic, they all want this stopped. they want it broken, they want the secrecy, the code of keeping it secret, the looking out for people with so-called psychological problems, they want it all to end, no more looking out for the priests who are bad or troubled, whatever the nice word is, it's now for the kids. i hope the cardinal is part of this, i think he is, and thank you. i'm proud to be talking to you tonight, seth williams from the philadelphia district attorney's office. this is more light-hearted
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about tea party people partying too much on their ideology and not thinking about the grand old party. this is "hardball," only on msnbc. it's never been easier to get the whole grain you want from your favorite big g cereals. from cheerios to lucky charms, there's whole grain in every box. make sure to look for the white check. [ male announcer ] ten people are going to win the chevrolet, buick, gmc or cadillac of their choice. push your onstar button and you could be one of them. even if you're not an onstar customer. ♪ just push your blue button and tell the advisor you want to enter the onstar push on sweepstakes. ♪ but do it soon. no purchase necessary. see rules at to enter without a blue onstar button. see rules at but you can still refinance to a fixed rate as low as 4.75% at plus, get the best deal or we'll pay you $1,000.
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call lending tree at... today. with respect dean howard running for the senate in nevada, guess who is back? sharron angle, the old second amendment lady. she announced it in a video. she's going to win too, probably. she lost to harry reid for the senate after calling for second amendment remedies against members of congress if they don't follow the rules of the tea pared. she'll be facing a primary. they should look out. we'll be right back. ru how are you getting to a happier place?
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welcome back to "hardball." on thus, this çweek, john boehr succeeded finally in getting the house to pass another spending bill, just house to get the bill passed to keep operating for three weeks. 54 republicans voted no. 85 democrats voted yes to keep going there. that's how it worked. but there is growing tension between the spending cut hawks, a lot of freshman members of congress and the republicans. that party is seeing a schism. is there trouble on the way for speaker boehner? with us is richard wolf and charles blow. every time i look at boehner i think of the jack lemon character in "the china syndrome." he looks like a guy with a mess to explain and he looks tired like he's been up late the night before. how is boehner going to deal
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with the fact that come the next couple of votings he's going to need moderate democrats, not pelosi's crowd. >> you're seeing a split and tea party supporters are having -- there is a split in that caucus. they are having to come to grips with reality. there is a part of the wing that sees a growing role for themselves and trying to find a way they continue to be a major force in the party now and far to the future. there is another part that is much more extremist, much more absolutist. they do not believe in compromise at all. they are taking out anger at boehner because he's having to deal with the reality which is that they do not control both houses of congress. there is not a republican president. they cannot get their way. there is no way to do it.
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one thing the american people will not stomach and we found it out last season before the midterms was not getting results. people want to seeç things happen. if they can't make them happen gunshot -- >> that's the perception in the polls, charles. we see people don't want to see the government crumble, come apart. they don't want sampson in the temple bringing down pillars, but there are exceptions. some people want to bring down the temple. mike pence, no religious concern here involved. speaker boehner yesterday before the vote, pence is on the outside of the temple right now. >> i think it's time to take a stand for taxpayers and for future generations. i will not vote for the short-term continuing resolution that is coming to the floor of the house today to make that statement. things don't change in washington -- >> the gentleman's time has expired. >> it's time to pick a fight. >> i understand members want to do well. what is it in the bill they disagree with?
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nothing. nothing. and so we'll see when we get to the floor, but i'm confident that thisle bill will pass. >> they haven't been in town two months and they're fighting. this is a short honeymoon for the tea partiers and the regulars. >> these were the straws that the white house is grasping for in the misery of the midterms that they can triangulate just within the republican party. pick off people, put the pressure on. >> what causes a legislator to break apart? the practicality of following your ideology. when you go into the war and you have to cut programs that have people depend on them. >> and the obvious polling for the house leadership which is that shutting down the government is a loser for them. they're not doing this just because they want to be responsible. that's what the white house says. you know, government made them more mature. they know shutting down the government, the clash that the pea party folks want is a loser for them. this is how you can splinter people off. that means john boehner has to
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adapt to a different scenario. instead of disciplineç and uni which works well he has to have a coalition of the willing. >> it puts the democrats in a bind. it seems to me, charles, that democrats have to come forward to keep the government running because there is not enough republicans to do it. i'm not talking about the west coast and east coast liberals. i'm talking about moderates that have to come forward. i guess they are willing to cut things, too. >> it's not necessarily a bind for them. it's a bind for the republicans. boehner is going to have to cut a deal if he cannot get the freshman tea party guys to come along. he has to cut a deal with moderate democrats. >> i love it. >> so far there is a poll out that the advantage in terms of dealing with the deficit they had a big advantage. today's poll shows that advantage has completely
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evaporat evaporated. people see no difference between the advantage of the republicans in congress or president obama and the biggest change in that were tea party supporters. he is going to have to deal with that segment of the base and cutting a deal with the democrats is going to make that all the more hard. >> thank you, charles blow of the new york times. thank you, richard wolf. when we return, let me finish with why it's dangerous when elected officials demonstrate they don't know nothing about history. ♪ i have clients say it's really hard to save for the future and they've come to a point where it's overwhelming. oh gee, i'm scared to tell you i've got this amount of credit card debt or i've got a 15-year-old and we never got around to saving for their college.
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let me finish tonight with the failure on the part of some politicians to know our history. this is not about an individual or group like the tea partiers. this is about the ideals and progress in human history. it is important. the key message about america is we got a lot right in 1776. we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, endowed with certain rights and among them are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. in many ways the history of america at our best has been the slow progression of rights that have come from those words. all men? how about african slaves brought here for 150 years of unpaid servitude. all men? how about women. took until the 20th century to allow women to have a hand in the rights of the public. liberty?
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